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    Tuesday, April 30, 2024

    E. Jean Carroll at Trump civil rape trial: ‘He raped me whether I screamed or not’

    In this courtroom sketch, in Federal Court, in New York, Thursday, April 27, 2023, E. Jean Carroll, center, testifies on the witness stand as a photo of her and Donald Trump, along with his wife Ivana and Carroll's former husband, is shown on a screen. The photo was taken prior to the alleged assault. The jury is in the foreground. (AP Photo/Elizabeth Williams)
    While a protester holds up signs, E. Jean Carroll arrives to federal court in New York, Thursday, April 27, 2023. Carroll began testifying Wednesday in the trial of her federal lawsuit. The writer has told a jury that Donald Trump raped her after she accompanied him into a luxury department store fitting room in 1996. (AP Photo/Seth Wenig)

    NEW YORK — Donald Trump’s lawyer aggressively questioned writer E. Jean Carroll as she took the witness stand Thursday to describe her allegations of rape against the former president.

    She sought to turn the tables on defense attorney Joe Tacopina, saying his very questions about why she didn’t scream during the alleged rape demonstrated why so many women stay silent after they are raped and abused.

    When asked by Tacopina why she didn’t yell when Trump raped her inside a dressing room at Bergdorf Goodman in the mid-1990s, a steadfast Carroll said she didn’t need an excuse.

    In this “supposed battle, you never screamed,” Tacopina said in court.

    “I’m not a screamer,” Carroll testified, explaining how she panicked and worried about making a scene.

    “So when you’re fighting and being sexually assaulted and raped because you’re not a screamer, as you described it, you wouldn’t scream,” Tacopina said.

    “You can’t beat up on me for not screaming,” she retorted.

    “I’m not beating up on you. I’m asking you questions, Ms. Carroll,” Tacopina continued.

    “Women who don’t come forward — one of the reasons they don’t come forward, is because they’re always asked, ‘Why didn’t you scream?’ Some women scream, some women don’t,” Carroll said. “It keeps women silent.”

    Raising her voice as she fought back tears, Carroll told Trump’s lawyer a few minutes later: “I’m telling you, he raped me whether I screamed or not!”

    “You need a minute, Ms. Carroll?” Tacopina said.

    “No, you go right on,” Carroll replied, later adding, “I don’t need an excuse for not screaming.”

    The exchange was one in a series of tense back-and-forths between Trump’s lawyer and Carroll, as Tacopina peppered her with questions about the assault, her reasons for staying silent, her politics, her friendships and her decision to speak out in 2019.

    Tacopina drew at least a dozen sustained objections for questions that Judge Lewis Kaplan ruled were inappropriate and argumentative.

    Carroll, 79, is suing Trump for sexual battery and defamation claims in Manhattan federal court for the attack she says happened after they bumped into each other at Bergdorf Goodman in the mid-1990s.

    The advice columnist has long awaited her day in court, first bringing suit against Trump in 2019 when he called her a liar from the White House and denied the assault on grounds she was not his “type.”

    Carroll filed the case on trial in November, under New York’s Adult Survivors Act. That legislation lifted the state statute of limitations for one year, allowing victims to bring sexual assault claims no matter how long ago incidents occurred.

    Carroll says the assault occurred after Trump asked her to help pick out a present for a “girl,” whose identity he wouldn’t reveal to her. At the time, he was married to Marla Maples. Carroll, who had a daytime TV show, wrote a popular advice column for Elle, took Trump up on the invitation, thinking it would make a great story.

    After milling about the Fifth Avenue luxury department store — where they looked at handbags and hats — Trump suggested going to the lingerie department, according to Carroll.

    Tacopina grilled her on her testimony stating that they didn’t see anyone else in the store either while making their way up to the lingerie section on the escalators or when they reached the sixth floor, where Trump suggested trying on a lace bodysuit.

    “I had no intention of putting on any lingerie. But I thought it was terrifically funny that he was holding it up in the air,” Carroll testified. “It struck me as suddenly funny that I could get him to put it on.”

    Carroll said the assault happened when they got to the dressing rooms, and Trump shoved her twice against a wall, banging her head both times. She said she didn’t grasp what was going on until he put his mouth on her.

    “In fact, in response to this supposedly serious situation, that you viewed as a fight where you got physically hurt, it’s your story that you not only didn’t scream out, but you started laughing,” Tacopina said.

    “I did not scream; I started laughing. That is right. No, I don’t think I started laughing going into the dressing room and I think I laughed pretty consistently to — after the kiss — to absolutely throw cold water on anything he thought was about to happen. Laughing is a very good — I use the word 'weapon’ to calm a man down, if he has any erotic intention,” Carroll said.

    She then described Trump sexually assaulting and raping her in graphic detail.

    As the questioning moved on, and Carroll described managing to break free when she pushed Trump back with her knee, an incredulous-sounding Tacopina repeatedly asked Carroll why she didn’t scream.

    Tacopina also asked Carroll how she fought back in 4-inch heels.

    “I can dance backwards and forwards in 4-inch heels,” Carroll said.

    Tacopina later asked Carroll why she called a friend after the assault and not the police, with Carroll saying the latter was never an option in her mind. She said she only told her friends Lisa Birnbach and Carol Martin — with Birnbach urging her to report it and Martin telling her to stay silent. When Tacopina asked why she feared reporting Trump, she said the evidence was displayed in the courtroom.

    “He was not only powerful. He was rich, he was famous. And as Carol (Martin) put it, he has 200 lawyers,” Carroll said. “I did not want to tell my story. I was ashamed of myself ... I was afraid Donald Trump would retaliate, which is exactly what he did. He has two tables full of lawyers here today. It came absolutely true.”

    Earlier in her testimony, Tacopina questioned Carroll about an email exchange between her and Martin in 2019. Trump’s lawyer argued in his opening argument that Carroll and her friends hated Trump and schemed to destroy him politically.

    In the emails, Martin tells Carroll, “As soon as we’re well enuf (sic) to scheme we must do our patriotic duty again.”

    A skeptical Tacopina asked Carroll whether it was true that she couldn’t remember an email conversation from five years ago but could remember telling Martin about the assault around 28 years ago.

    “Those are facts I could never forget. This is an email among probably hundreds of emails between Carol and I that I have no recollection of, but I suspect its something funny — that’s not typical Carol Martin language, ‘Patriotic duty.’ I can’t imagine what it is, I have no idea,” Carroll said.

    Trump, facing felony business fraud charges in a separate case and a host of legal challenges, has not attended his trial yet, and Tacopina doesn’t know whether he plans to. The former president, who is seeking the Republican presidential nomination yet again, has faced admonishments from the presiding judge for his online messages about the case.

    Kaplan called it a day when Tacopina asked about the dress that Carroll wore during the assault, which she kept and never washed. As Carroll’s two lawsuits against Trump played out, Trump refused to provide a sample of his DNA for three years. He changed his mind in February after retaining Tacopina as his lawyer, which Carroll’s lawyers argued was an apparent effort to delay the case further.

    In denying Trump’s request, Kaplan found that the dress would neither prove he’d raped Carroll nor exonerate him. No semen was recovered from the dress, and if Trump was a match for organic matter recovered from it, the judge said that would only prove he and Carroll had an interaction at some point.

    Following Carroll’s testimony, jurors will hear from two more women who have accused Trump of sexual assault, Natasha Stoynoff and Jessica Leeds, as well as close friends of Carroll’s who she told about the assault in the aftermath. They will also see the infamous “Access Hollywood” tape, in which Trump bragged about molesting women.

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